1 00:00:21,670 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:24,320 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:29,190 episode number 388 for the 27th of March 4 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:32,520 2016 Richard Saunders here with you from 5 00:00:40,150 --> 00:00:35,250 Sydney Australia a little bit of a 6 00:00:45,070 --> 00:00:40,160 subdued Richard Saunders today sadly is 7 00:00:50,299 --> 00:00:45,080 some of you know by now mind your mother 8 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:50,309 died yesterday but she was quite a piece 9 00:00:58,360 --> 00:00:53,489 in the hospital and all her children and 10 00:01:03,380 --> 00:00:58,370 family were surrounding her mother had 11 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:03,390 inherited from her mother we widely 12 00:01:10,450 --> 00:01:06,110 suspect any way from her mother the 13 00:01:13,670 --> 00:01:10,460 defective bracket to gene which is the 14 00:01:17,870 --> 00:01:13,680 breast cancer and ovarian cancer gene 15 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:17,880 some of you may have heard of this from 16 00:01:23,660 --> 00:01:21,570 Angelina Jolie she had that she has that 17 00:01:30,260 --> 00:01:23,670 defective gene and another one which is 18 00:01:34,190 --> 00:01:30,270 pretty bad 30 years ago my mother could 19 00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:34,200 have died from breast cancer but she 20 00:01:41,620 --> 00:01:38,310 didn't because of the state of Medical 21 00:01:45,790 --> 00:01:41,630 Science in the 1980s it was good enough 22 00:01:51,529 --> 00:01:45,800 to to give her another 30 years of life 23 00:01:54,290 --> 00:01:51,539 about 12 years ago the cancer attacked 24 00:01:58,070 --> 00:01:54,300 her stomach and she was in hospital for 25 00:02:00,889 --> 00:01:58,080 six weeks then started chemotherapy in 26 00:02:04,190 --> 00:02:00,899 the last year or so though the the 27 00:02:05,809 --> 00:02:04,200 cancers came back mum had some more 28 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:05,819 chemotherapy which gave us some more 29 00:02:11,180 --> 00:02:09,330 time but ultimately of course now many 30 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:11,190 of us of course Oh our mothers quite a 31 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:15,930 bit quite a lot but there's a major old 32 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:19,110 boy who couldn't read very well at all 33 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:22,110 having mum sit down with me and turn the 34 00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:24,450 pages of the origami book step by step 35 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:26,760 until we did manage to fold the frog it 36 00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:29,930 meant a lot to me then and it still does 37 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:32,820 so goodbye and many thanks to Phyllis 38 00:02:36,580 --> 00:02:34,040 Maud 39 00:02:39,339 --> 00:02:36,590 Saunders who was born into the Walker 40 00:02:41,949 --> 00:02:39,349 family oh and by the way she was a 41 00:02:45,130 --> 00:02:41,959 terrific grandma to my nephews and 42 00:02:46,420 --> 00:02:45,140 nieces oh my goodness me and for the 43 00:02:48,670 --> 00:02:46,430 rest of their lives they'll remember 44 00:02:51,729 --> 00:02:48,680 grandma and the way that grandma always 45 00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:51,739 had lovely treats for them whenever they 46 00:03:00,460 --> 00:02:57,280 came to visit now this coincidentally 47 00:03:01,539 --> 00:03:00,470 prompts me to tell you about an article 48 00:03:03,910 --> 00:03:01,549 which has been brought to my attention 49 00:03:05,589 --> 00:03:03,920 by our very own reporter Heidi Robertson 50 00:03:09,210 --> 00:03:05,599 the raw skeptic who you will hear later 51 00:03:14,589 --> 00:03:09,220 on in the show and this appears at the 52 00:03:17,020 --> 00:03:14,599 Guardian calm and the title is Don't 53 00:03:19,059 --> 00:03:17,030 Tell cancer patients what they could be 54 00:03:22,569 --> 00:03:19,069 doing to cure themselves and this is by 55 00:03:24,399 --> 00:03:22,579 Stephen W Thrasher there are many ways 56 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:24,409 to support someone going through cancer 57 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:27,290 treatment recommending pseudo-scientific 58 00:03:32,409 --> 00:03:30,530 treatments isn't one of them if you're a 59 00:03:35,530 --> 00:03:32,419 religious person for the love of god 60 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:35,540 don't tell someone with cancer that if 61 00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:38,810 they just drank juice or take vitamins 62 00:03:44,830 --> 00:03:42,560 or pray or have a positive attitude that 63 00:03:46,539 --> 00:03:44,840 they could cure themselves and if you're 64 00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:46,549 not a religious person for the love of 65 00:03:51,309 --> 00:03:49,609 reason and decency don't tell someone 66 00:03:53,860 --> 00:03:51,319 with cancer any of these things either 67 00:03:57,309 --> 00:03:53,870 it was my late sister Sharon's birthday 68 00:03:59,110 --> 00:03:57,319 last week and it's Easter this week my 69 00:04:01,569 --> 00:03:59,120 second time is spending two holidays 70 00:04:04,659 --> 00:04:01,579 without her and we often celebrated 71 00:04:06,969 --> 00:04:04,669 together each spring if Sharon was 72 00:04:09,550 --> 00:04:06,979 feeling good I'd have a tepid sense of 73 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:09,560 hope for her as her beloved peonies 74 00:04:14,710 --> 00:04:12,530 which I flowers came into bloom she 75 00:04:18,159 --> 00:04:14,720 lived with a rare type of sarcoma tissue 76 00:04:21,330 --> 00:04:18,169 cancer for 15 years and we never knew if 77 00:04:24,189 --> 00:04:21,340 each season of renewal would be her last 78 00:04:26,469 --> 00:04:24,199 since she's been gone I've been able to 79 00:04:28,629 --> 00:04:26,479 understand that my sister wasn't alone 80 00:04:30,969 --> 00:04:28,639 in a particular burden she bore I've 81 00:04:33,219 --> 00:04:30,979 been hearing from friends with cancer 82 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:33,229 and other serious illnesses they are 83 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:36,050 overwhelmed when concerned people lob 84 00:04:41,740 --> 00:04:37,849 suggestions at them for homeopathic 85 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:41,750 remedies they should be doing over the 86 00:04:45,770 --> 00:04:43,849 years it was painful for me to see 87 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:45,780 people tell my sister and 88 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:48,570 me that she could just cure herself if 89 00:04:53,870 --> 00:04:50,550 she really wanted to didn't she know 90 00:04:55,940 --> 00:04:53,880 that if she just drank lemon juice every 91 00:04:58,490 --> 00:04:55,950 day she could wipe her cancer cells out 92 00:05:00,920 --> 00:04:58,500 that if she just watched the Netflix 93 00:05:04,010 --> 00:05:00,930 documentary the gas and miracle should 94 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:04,020 be okay that if she were only willing to 95 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:06,120 take vitamins or eat raw food or do yo 96 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:07,650 girl look at the bright side of things 97 00:05:11,810 --> 00:05:10,410 her illness would go away let's put 98 00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:11,820 aside for the moment that none of these 99 00:05:15,950 --> 00:05:13,500 claims have been validated by 100 00:05:18,950 --> 00:05:15,960 peer-reviewed science and that none of 101 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:18,960 them are true juice is no more of a 102 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:21,210 magical answer to illness than the gas 103 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:23,910 and methods demand for people who are 104 00:05:30,260 --> 00:05:27,570 sick to eat raw calf liver Oh shove 105 00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:30,270 coffee grounds into their rectums let's 106 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:32,550 also put aside at a variety of modern 107 00:05:37,310 --> 00:05:34,490 medical procedures including 108 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:37,320 chemotherapy radiation surgery and more 109 00:05:42,469 --> 00:05:40,650 plus inexplicable luck helped keep my 110 00:05:45,140 --> 00:05:42,479 sister alive for many years more than 111 00:05:46,870 --> 00:05:45,150 expected and she died despite having a 112 00:05:49,909 --> 00:05:46,880 well-developed sense of spirituality 113 00:05:52,490 --> 00:05:49,919 nutrition Puma and tenacity let's 114 00:05:55,190 --> 00:05:52,500 instead confront the three reasons I 115 00:05:57,469 --> 00:05:55,200 think it's an act of violence every time 116 00:05:59,870 --> 00:05:57,479 someone suggests a simplistic unproven 117 00:06:03,500 --> 00:05:59,880 and fantastic cure for another's cancer 118 00:06:06,140 --> 00:06:03,510 first it's condescending if lemon juice 119 00:06:08,570 --> 00:06:06,150 really cured cancer don't you think we'd 120 00:06:10,730 --> 00:06:08,580 all be dancing around citrus trees that 121 00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:10,740 lemonade would be traded on Wall Street 122 00:06:16,130 --> 00:06:13,440 and hedge funds would be peddling lemon 123 00:06:18,469 --> 00:06:16,140 flavored credit default swaps more 124 00:06:21,050 --> 00:06:18,479 importantly when someone has a cancer 125 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:21,060 for months or years maybe living through 126 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:23,430 hours of doctor appointments days in 127 00:06:27,740 --> 00:06:25,620 hospital and months in bed don't you 128 00:06:29,870 --> 00:06:27,750 think they'd have time to consider every 129 00:06:32,810 --> 00:06:29,880 possible option with the seriousness 130 00:06:34,940 --> 00:06:32,820 their own mortality deserves my sister 131 00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:34,950 was a PhD and a licensed psychologist 132 00:06:39,380 --> 00:06:37,740 and she fought hard as a black woman to 133 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:39,390 establish her place in the medical 134 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:41,490 profession why would people look at her 135 00:06:46,670 --> 00:06:44,400 and think well in all these years of 136 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:46,680 facing death as a doctor consulting 137 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:49,140 other doctors she probably so lacking in 138 00:06:56,630 --> 00:06:52,530 intellectual curiosity or she is such a 139 00:06:59,180 --> 00:06:56,640 stooge of Big Pharma ah that I bet she 140 00:07:02,930 --> 00:06:59,190 hasn't considered this advice I read 141 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:02,940 in a magazine second it could be argued 142 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:04,890 that people giving advice and just 143 00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:08,310 trying to quote do something and quote 144 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:12,150 and kindly offer help but I reject this 145 00:07:16,220 --> 00:07:13,890 if you want to do something to help 146 00:07:18,620 --> 00:07:16,230 someone in distress as George Carlin 147 00:07:21,950 --> 00:07:18,630 famously reft unplug their clogged 148 00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:21,960 toilet or paint their garage don't tell 149 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:23,670 a sick or injured person what they 150 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:25,890 should do because it's a sneaky and 151 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:27,690 harmful way of dealing with your own 152 00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:30,930 fear of death you're saying tisk tisk i 153 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:32,880 wouldn't let this happen to me the way 154 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:35,400 you've let it happen to you finally 155 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:37,530 giving advice to people with cancer 156 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:40,770 blames a sick person for your discomfort 157 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:43,050 with their reality and shifts any 158 00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:46,050 accountability you feel back on to them 159 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:48,990 as authors Barbara Ehrenreich and Sarah 160 00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:51,210 Schumann have shown we have ethical 161 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:53,790 responsibilities to be vulnerable in our 162 00:07:58,880 --> 00:07:56,490 communities and we find excuses to avoid 163 00:08:01,160 --> 00:07:58,890 them having cancer or caring for someone 164 00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:01,170 with it understandably causes fear 165 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:04,110 anxiety and depression expecting someone 166 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:08,010 to have a positive attitude trademark 167 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:09,900 when they are facing mortality or 168 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:12,810 telling them that they've mr. simplistic 169 00:08:17,710 --> 00:08:14,730 way that could have avoided their fate 170 00:08:20,180 --> 00:08:17,720 further isolates and shuns them as 171 00:08:23,750 --> 00:08:20,190 anthropologist s Lachlan Jane wrote in 172 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:23,760 malignant how cancer becomes us quote 173 00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:26,400 the huge and punishing self-help 174 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:29,280 industry preys on the fears and adds 175 00:08:34,459 --> 00:08:31,710 guilt to the mix as one woman with 176 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:34,469 metastatic colon cancer said on a 177 00:08:39,620 --> 00:08:37,410 retreat i attended maybe I haven't 178 00:08:41,990 --> 00:08:39,630 laughed enough talking at someone with 179 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:42,000 cancer about what they should do rather 180 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:44,370 than being with them in a morass with no 181 00:08:49,579 --> 00:08:47,010 easy answers is not helping them it is 182 00:08:53,210 --> 00:08:49,589 you unfairly shaming them for having 183 00:08:55,610 --> 00:08:53,220 failed at self-help which isn't even a 184 00:08:58,730 --> 00:08:55,620 thing it's hard to be with people in 185 00:09:00,380 --> 00:08:58,740 grief it is hard to be with people who 186 00:09:03,110 --> 00:09:00,390 are facing death or with their 187 00:09:05,329 --> 00:09:03,120 caregivers the next time you are don't 188 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:05,339 give them stupid advice they're not 189 00:09:11,030 --> 00:09:07,650 stupid trust they're given more thought 190 00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:11,040 to their course of treatment and you did 191 00:09:14,810 --> 00:09:12,630 listening to that public 192 00:09:17,390 --> 00:09:14,820 Oh story trust yourself to be just with 193 00:09:18,650 --> 00:09:17,400 them in the unknown trust yourself to 194 00:09:21,380 --> 00:09:18,660 love them in the condition they're in 195 00:09:23,420 --> 00:09:21,390 instead of ignorantly and egotistical II 196 00:09:27,050 --> 00:09:23,430 giving them useless advice that won't 197 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:27,060 ultimately change their prognosis one of 198 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:29,040 the last and most frightening lessons I 199 00:09:32,980 --> 00:09:30,930 learned with my sister in her final days 200 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:32,990 was the importance of being with another 201 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:36,930 when there is nothing to do or say it is 202 00:09:42,380 --> 00:09:39,690 terrifying to just be with a loved one 203 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:42,390 and to admit you're powerless to stop 204 00:09:47,780 --> 00:09:44,370 their death but it can be the most 205 00:09:50,210 --> 00:09:47,790 powerful quiet and loving gift you can 206 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:50,220 give each other and that was don't tell 207 00:09:55,370 --> 00:09:52,530 cancer patients what they could be doing 208 00:09:59,780 --> 00:09:55,380 to cure themselves by Stephen W Thrasher 209 00:10:02,120 --> 00:09:59,790 as published at the Guardian dot-com so 210 00:10:03,590 --> 00:10:02,130 well now what's coming up on the rest of 211 00:10:05,150 --> 00:10:03,600 the skeptic zone we're going to kick off 212 00:10:07,490 --> 00:10:05,160 for the raw skeptic report Heidi 213 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:07,500 Robinson and she's going to be 214 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:09,540 discussing what the Northern Rivers 215 00:10:15,860 --> 00:10:12,450 vaccination supporters group do speaking 216 00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:15,870 about fighting quite cures to promote 217 00:10:20,630 --> 00:10:17,460 themselves and spread the message of 218 00:10:23,300 --> 00:10:20,640 vaccination in their area and it's a 219 00:10:24,890 --> 00:10:23,310 it's a good lesson for everybody party's 220 00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:24,900 going to be discussing some of the memes 221 00:10:29,060 --> 00:10:26,670 and posters and things that they've 222 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:29,070 created after that we have a press 223 00:10:33,140 --> 00:10:31,290 release by the Friends of science in 224 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:33,150 medicine what a good group they are 225 00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:36,570 doing fantastic work necessary work to 226 00:10:41,770 --> 00:10:39,900 combat quackery and this media release 227 00:10:44,660 --> 00:10:41,780 press release is all about so-called 228 00:10:45,980 --> 00:10:44,670 integrative medicine then to round off 229 00:10:47,540 --> 00:10:45,990 the show something a little bit more 230 00:10:50,540 --> 00:10:47,550 lighthearted and why not I think we 231 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:50,550 could all use it may not and I yeah the 232 00:10:57,560 --> 00:10:54,450 week went to a meetup group which we do 233 00:11:01,400 --> 00:10:57,570 regularly the podcasting Sydney group 234 00:11:03,830 --> 00:11:01,410 and main our chats to our other the 235 00:11:07,180 --> 00:11:03,840 guest speaker now this is a one of the 236 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:07,190 guys behind the spokie below keys 237 00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:10,620 podcast this is quite fun to guys get on 238 00:11:17,150 --> 00:11:12,300 their bikes and ride around Sydney 239 00:11:18,890 --> 00:11:17,160 suburbs if the microphones attached to 240 00:11:21,710 --> 00:11:18,900 the side of the head and well give a 241 00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:21,720 running running a writing commentary of 242 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:24,990 what they see good fun and may not also 243 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:26,250 speaks to Siobhan 244 00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,550 sullivan the the founder of podcasting 245 00:11:34,010 --> 00:11:31,920 sydney about her podcast and knowing 246 00:11:35,630 --> 00:11:34,020 animals now if you're in sydney and you 247 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:35,640 make a podcast or just like podcasts 248 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:38,310 then i can I certainly recommend this 249 00:11:43,070 --> 00:11:40,110 meetup group all you have to do is 250 00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:43,080 google podcasting sydney and meet up to 251 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:45,000 find the page well that's enough for me 252 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:48,650 right now i'm going to run downstairs 253 00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:53,690 have a cup of coffee and remember fondly 254 00:11:59,510 --> 00:11:56,820 the award-winning chocolate cake only 255 00:12:04,150 --> 00:11:59,520 about two years ago my mother won the 256 00:12:07,570 --> 00:12:04,160 local er in her village the local 257 00:12:09,980 --> 00:12:07,580 competition for chocolate cakes or cakes 258 00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:09,990 that's gone it's going to be tough i'm 259 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:11,400 going to miss that mando peanut butter 260 00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:13,890 cookies while I'm doing that I hope you 261 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:35,329 by travelpod member 262 00:12:51,119 --> 00:12:39,299 it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi 263 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:51,129 Robertson hi Heidi Robertson here if you 264 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:53,529 are a regular listener you would have 265 00:12:58,079 --> 00:12:55,689 heard both Richard and I talking a lot 266 00:13:01,979 --> 00:12:58,089 about vaccinations and the Northern 267 00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:01,989 Rivers vaccination supporters group over 268 00:13:07,739 --> 00:13:05,049 the nearly three years that the nrvs has 269 00:13:10,199 --> 00:13:07,749 been in existence we've managed to 270 00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:10,209 achieve a few things all of us that 271 00:13:15,809 --> 00:13:12,790 manage that group have jobs and families 272 00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:15,819 and of course what we do for nrvs is 273 00:13:22,439 --> 00:13:18,660 completely voluntary and in our own time 274 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:22,449 which we do gladly but it does dictate 275 00:13:28,349 --> 00:13:24,850 to an extent how much we can achieve in 276 00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:28,359 a fixed period of time the goal of 277 00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:30,540 turning around this region's abysmal 278 00:13:35,939 --> 00:13:33,279 vaccination rates was never going to 279 00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:35,949 happen overnight of course it will take 280 00:13:41,249 --> 00:13:38,829 time and as the world's most impatient 281 00:13:45,150 --> 00:13:41,259 person this has been a hard thing for me 282 00:13:47,129 --> 00:13:45,160 to come to terms with but step by baby 283 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:47,139 step we're making some inroads and 284 00:13:53,639 --> 00:13:50,980 getting our message out there as part of 285 00:13:55,139 --> 00:13:53,649 our presence on social media we decided 286 00:13:57,629 --> 00:13:55,149 to come up with some memes and 287 00:14:01,169 --> 00:13:57,639 infographics that we could post on our 288 00:14:03,989 --> 00:14:01,179 Facebook page most people's Facebook 289 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:03,999 pages and Twitter feeds are filled with 290 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:07,600 news items links to opinion pieces and 291 00:14:13,139 --> 00:14:10,480 blogs of course the obligatory cat 292 00:14:16,409 --> 00:14:13,149 photos and videos and a million other 293 00:14:18,869 --> 00:14:16,419 things one cannot possibly hope to read 294 00:14:22,739 --> 00:14:18,879 or keep up to date with everything that 295 00:14:25,169 --> 00:14:22,749 appears on one's feed with a subject 296 00:14:26,970 --> 00:14:25,179 like vaccination where the science for 297 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:26,980 us lay people can get quite complicated 298 00:14:32,699 --> 00:14:30,160 at times it's important to be able to 299 00:14:36,929 --> 00:14:32,709 have some i grabbing memes with a simple 300 00:14:39,629 --> 00:14:36,939 but powerful message the ones we post 301 00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:39,639 are not propaganda if we post an 302 00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:40,800 infographic or a 303 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:43,830 with statistics or facts we will always 304 00:14:50,329 --> 00:14:46,170 post links to the evidence behind our 305 00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,339 statements so one of our admins dr. 306 00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:52,560 Rachel heap began to try her hand at 307 00:14:57,949 --> 00:14:55,649 making some memes over time we assess 308 00:15:01,220 --> 00:14:57,959 which ones had the most impact on social 309 00:15:05,420 --> 00:15:01,230 media by way of likes shares comments 310 00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:05,430 and reach we chose the top 4 and have 311 00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:08,240 them printed into a three sized posters 312 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:11,820 which are now I'm pleased to say in GPS 313 00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:14,730 waiting rooms hospitals baby health 314 00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:16,860 clinics and notice boards throughout the 315 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:19,500 northern rivers we have relied on our 316 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:21,690 members volunteering to distribute them 317 00:15:25,819 --> 00:15:23,670 and are very grateful for their 318 00:15:28,430 --> 00:15:25,829 willingness and enthusiasm in helping 319 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:28,440 the first poster focuses on whooping 320 00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:31,740 cough one of our members kindly gave us 321 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:34,260 a photo featuring herself with her baby 322 00:15:42,139 --> 00:15:38,970 sister and mother the text says quote is 323 00:15:44,210 --> 00:15:42,149 there a new baby in your family being 324 00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:44,220 vaccinated against whooping cough will 325 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:46,380 not only protect you it will also 326 00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:50,360 protect the people around you facts won 327 00:15:55,699 --> 00:15:53,279 nine out of ten babies less than three 328 00:15:58,190 --> 00:15:55,709 months old who get pertussis have to be 329 00:16:01,280 --> 00:15:58,200 looked after in hospital and most have 330 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:01,290 to stay in hospital about a week some 331 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:03,930 die even with the best medical support 332 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:07,770 available to pertussis immunity wears 333 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:10,170 off after the disease and after the 334 00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:13,290 vaccination all adults in contact with a 335 00:16:19,069 --> 00:16:15,120 baby should have a booster every 10 336 00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:19,079 years 3 if you are pregnant ask your 337 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:21,270 doctor about how you can safely protect 338 00:16:26,060 --> 00:16:23,310 your baby with a booster in the third 339 00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:26,070 trimester if you don't get the disease 340 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:30,420 you can't pass it on end quote the 341 00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:33,570 second poster focuses on measles the 342 00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:36,120 title quote let's compare two 343 00:16:43,130 --> 00:16:39,360 populations of 100,000 people 1 344 00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:43,140 vaccinated why not what would happen if 345 00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:45,540 they were all exposed to the measles end 346 00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,680 quote we then have two pie charts one 347 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:52,320 titled vaccinated population and the 348 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:54,050 other unvaccinated 349 00:17:00,519 --> 00:16:58,490 elation and wealth pie charts speak for 350 00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:00,529 themselves it's an extremely powerful 351 00:17:05,439 --> 00:17:02,870 visual that you can check out on our 352 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:05,449 Facebook page along with all the others 353 00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:09,530 that are mentioning today the third and 354 00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:11,990 fourth posters focused particularly on a 355 00:17:15,610 --> 00:17:13,790 subset of the demographic in the 356 00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:15,620 Northern Rivers who lead alternative 357 00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,380 lifestyles we wanted to make the point 358 00:17:22,569 --> 00:17:20,720 that leading an alternative lifestyle 359 00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:22,579 and vaccination do not have to be 360 00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:26,620 mutually exclusive you can do both 361 00:17:32,590 --> 00:17:28,760 unfortunately the view seems to be 362 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:32,600 amongst many here that if you do choose 363 00:17:38,110 --> 00:17:35,450 the so-called crunchy lifestyle you must 364 00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:38,120 embrace all of it which includes not 365 00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:43,070 vaccinating so one of these posters also 366 00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:44,960 has a photo donated by one of our 367 00:17:50,530 --> 00:17:47,150 members with herself and her toddler out 368 00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:50,540 in the veggie patch together the text I 369 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:53,000 teach my kids how to grow our own 370 00:17:58,299 --> 00:17:54,890 veggies and take care of the environment 371 00:18:00,700 --> 00:17:58,309 I also choose to vaccinate to safely 372 00:18:04,180 --> 00:18:00,710 give them specific immunity to some 373 00:18:06,610 --> 00:18:04,190 serious infectious diseases no food can 374 00:18:11,409 --> 00:18:06,620 do that for them protecting my kids 375 00:18:13,390 --> 00:18:11,419 comes naturally and quote the fourth 376 00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:13,400 poster also features a member of our 377 00:18:20,290 --> 00:18:15,590 group breastfeeding her child with a 378 00:18:23,290 --> 00:18:20,300 similar message on our website nrvs dot 379 00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:23,300 info we have flyers available for anyone 380 00:18:28,810 --> 00:18:25,520 to download that have proved very useful 381 00:18:30,909 --> 00:18:28,820 for expectant mothers as well as immune 382 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:30,919 suppressed people from all over the 383 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:33,260 world people have told us they have put 384 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:35,390 them up on their front door or their 385 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:38,090 hospital door or posted them on social 386 00:18:43,210 --> 00:18:41,210 media for family and friends to see one 387 00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:43,220 was made in conjunction with kath and 388 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:46,790 greg hughes from light for Riley who as 389 00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:48,370 I'm sure you remember from previous 390 00:18:57,220 --> 00:18:51,919 reports tragically lost their baby Riley 391 00:18:59,770 --> 00:18:57,230 to pertussis at only 32 days old it 392 00:19:04,020 --> 00:18:59,780 features a beautiful photo of Riley and 393 00:19:07,539 --> 00:19:04,030 the text quote Novak's no visit to 394 00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:07,549 protect our new baby we ask that all our 395 00:19:12,269 --> 00:19:09,320 friends and family make sure that they 396 00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,279 are up to date with their vaccinations 397 00:19:17,889 --> 00:19:14,720 please talk to your doctor about which 398 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:17,899 vaccines you may require immunity wears 399 00:19:22,149 --> 00:19:19,610 off particularly quickly for whooping 400 00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:22,159 cough so you need regular boosters thank 401 00:19:28,539 --> 00:19:23,840 you and we can't wait for you to meet 402 00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:28,549 our new edition and quote the next is 403 00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:30,350 similar but focuses on raising awareness 404 00:19:36,489 --> 00:19:33,980 of how any infection or seemingly minor 405 00:19:40,629 --> 00:19:36,499 ailment can be dangerous for a new baby 406 00:19:44,919 --> 00:19:40,639 and lists things like influenza a rash a 407 00:19:47,769 --> 00:19:44,929 temperature cold sores and so on and for 408 00:19:50,109 --> 00:19:47,779 the immune suppressed a flyer quote are 409 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:50,119 you planning on visiting please help 410 00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:53,090 protect me whilst I'm sick my disease 411 00:19:57,609 --> 00:19:54,950 and treatment leave me vulnerable to 412 00:20:00,489 --> 00:19:57,619 infection and what might be trivial for 413 00:20:03,099 --> 00:20:00,499 you could be very serious for me thank 414 00:20:04,989 --> 00:20:03,109 you and I can't wait to see you these 415 00:20:08,109 --> 00:20:04,999 are ways in which you can help but if in 416 00:20:10,930 --> 00:20:08,119 doubt please call first are you all up 417 00:20:13,539 --> 00:20:10,940 to date with your vaccinations is anyone 418 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:13,549 at daycare kindy school or work 419 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:16,330 currently sick with something infectious 420 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:18,769 even if you are well you could be 421 00:20:24,879 --> 00:20:21,230 carrying it with you do you have a cough 422 00:20:29,169 --> 00:20:24,889 or cold a rash or a temperature have you 423 00:20:31,299 --> 00:20:29,179 washed your hands and quote and of 424 00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:31,309 course we also have flyers for download 425 00:20:37,539 --> 00:20:33,950 in both color and black and white about 426 00:20:39,399 --> 00:20:37,549 our group and our contact details please 427 00:20:41,950 --> 00:20:39,409 feel free to head on over to the website 428 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:41,960 and download the Flyers if you have 429 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:43,850 anyone in your life that may benefit 430 00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:47,330 from them and as always we would value 431 00:20:54,729 --> 00:20:51,289 your support on our facebook page can I 432 00:20:57,159 --> 00:20:54,739 just end with one more thing if there is 433 00:20:59,680 --> 00:20:57,169 something in your community that you 434 00:21:02,470 --> 00:20:59,690 want to change in order to help or 435 00:21:05,979 --> 00:21:02,480 benefit people don't think you can't 436 00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:05,989 make a difference just make a start you 437 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:08,240 never know where it may lead you 438 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:38,750 and now a new note a new note a new 439 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:40,080 little bit of information from our 440 00:21:45,770 --> 00:21:43,290 friends in Victorian the Vics skeptics 441 00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:45,780 who want you to know that this year's 442 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:48,299 Australian skeptics national convention 443 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:50,370 will be held in Melbourne on the 444 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:54,210 twenty-fifth to the 27th of November the 445 00:21:58,010 --> 00:21:56,130 organising committee are selecting 446 00:22:01,640 --> 00:21:58,020 speakers a little differently this year 447 00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:01,650 in addition to invited speakers you can 448 00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:03,750 put yourself forward as a possible 449 00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:06,480 speaker the 2016 convention website 450 00:22:10,909 --> 00:22:09,600 includes a call for papers link if you 451 00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:10,919 think you have the makings of an 452 00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:13,470 excellent presentation for a skeptical 453 00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,660 audience please let the organising 454 00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,240 committee novia call for papers link 455 00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:20,400 there are a range of time slots 456 00:22:25,940 --> 00:22:22,440 available from the short 15 minutes 457 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:25,950 skeptic camp style type talks up to the 458 00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:28,440 full 40 minute time slots and don't 459 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:30,720 forget the Vic skeptics have already 460 00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:34,200 said lawrence krauss and professor it's 461 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:37,710 art ernst for this year's convention so 462 00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:40,850 just head to HTTP colon slash slash 463 00:23:12,880 --> 00:22:46,320 convention skeptics com au and click the 464 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:16,310 here is a press release released on the 465 00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:19,440 21st of March 2016 by the Friends of 466 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:26,220 science in medicine at WWDC encinia new 467 00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:29,850 medicine co gio tau VA health care 468 00:23:35,149 --> 00:23:32,190 watchdog endorses concern about 469 00:23:38,899 --> 00:23:35,159 integrative medicine friends of science 470 00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:38,909 in medicine if sm has endorsed the 471 00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,500 concerns about integrative medicine 472 00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:42,720 published today in the medical journal 473 00:23:47,930 --> 00:23:45,960 of australia the analysis by Professor 474 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:47,940 Edsel Ernst a leading international 475 00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:49,710 authority on complementary and 476 00:23:54,130 --> 00:23:51,720 alternative medicine claims that the 477 00:23:56,539 --> 00:23:54,140 vast majority of integrative clinics 478 00:23:59,389 --> 00:23:56,549 advertised alternative therapies that 479 00:24:01,490 --> 00:23:59,399 like a solid evidence base and that 480 00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:01,500 integrative medicine is little more than 481 00:24:06,919 --> 00:24:04,740 end quote ill-conceived concept end 482 00:24:10,430 --> 00:24:06,929 quote in conflict with evidence-based 483 00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:10,440 medicine professor john dwyer president 484 00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:14,640 of fsm stressed that FSM had been 485 00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:17,340 issuing similar warnings for some time 486 00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:19,529 about the emergence of Integrative 487 00:24:25,580 --> 00:24:22,440 Medicine in Australia quote many GPS who 488 00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:25,590 lead integrative medicine practices 489 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:28,799 promote alternative medicine concepts to 490 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:31,710 their patients and in doing so abandon 491 00:24:36,169 --> 00:24:33,990 the long-held commitment of doctors to 492 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:36,179 champion the importance of credible 493 00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:38,250 scientific evidence of clinical 494 00:24:43,220 --> 00:24:41,220 effectiveness underpinning the care they 495 00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:43,230 provide to patients in quote said 496 00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:46,529 Professor Dwyer quote the prestigious 497 00:24:51,470 --> 00:24:48,510 National Health and Medical Research 498 00:24:53,659 --> 00:24:51,480 Council recently reported to government 499 00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:53,669 that they could find no evidence of 500 00:24:59,840 --> 00:24:57,270 clinical benefit from any of the 18 most 501 00:25:02,000 --> 00:24:59,850 common alternative modalities commonly 502 00:25:05,389 --> 00:25:02,010 promoted in integrative medicine and 503 00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:05,399 quote he said fsm strongly supports 504 00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:07,590 research into traditional therapies that 505 00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:10,169 are not an affront to accepted knowledge 506 00:25:15,019 --> 00:25:12,840 of physiology and pathology and where 507 00:25:15,769 --> 00:25:15,029 there is strong anecdotal evidence to 508 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:15,779 suggest 509 00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:18,090 proper scientific evaluation would be 510 00:25:23,739 --> 00:25:20,609 important however neuroscientist 511 00:25:26,450 --> 00:25:23,749 professor Micelli Costa claimed quote 512 00:25:28,609 --> 00:25:26,460 integrative medicine has nothing to do 513 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:28,619 with proper efforts to bring scientific 514 00:25:32,959 --> 00:25:30,570 and alternative medicine together in 515 00:25:35,959 --> 00:25:32,969 ways that would determine what works and 516 00:25:37,999 --> 00:25:35,969 what does not work participants in 517 00:25:40,639 --> 00:25:38,009 integrative medicine practices are 518 00:25:43,249 --> 00:25:40,649 promoting parallel pathways mixing 519 00:25:45,379 --> 00:25:43,259 science-based health professions with 520 00:25:47,299 --> 00:25:45,389 pseudo science based health professions 521 00:25:49,669 --> 00:25:47,309 suggesting that this approach offers 522 00:25:52,820 --> 00:25:49,679 patients the best of both worlds unquote 523 00:25:54,859 --> 00:25:52,830 in his recent address to University of 524 00:25:57,589 --> 00:25:54,869 Adelaide medical graduates published 525 00:25:59,719 --> 00:25:57,599 this month in medic essay emeritus 526 00:26:03,320 --> 00:25:59,729 professor Alistair mclennan vice 527 00:26:05,299 --> 00:26:03,330 president of fsm warned the new 528 00:26:08,269 --> 00:26:05,309 graduates that they would be challenged 529 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:08,279 by an upsurge in non evidence-based 530 00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:10,529 therapies and alternative therapies and 531 00:26:16,639 --> 00:26:13,919 that quote they should not be seduced 532 00:26:18,619 --> 00:26:16,649 into lucrative but unproven and 533 00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:18,629 therefore untenable amalgam of 534 00:26:22,999 --> 00:26:20,609 traditional medicine and pseudo 535 00:26:25,339 --> 00:26:23,009 scientific alternative practices and 536 00:26:28,129 --> 00:26:25,349 quote professor mclennan quoted 537 00:26:30,979 --> 00:26:28,139 professor David Gorski as saying quote 538 00:26:33,609 --> 00:26:30,989 when health fraud turns into alternative 539 00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:33,619 medicine and then evolved into 540 00:26:38,169 --> 00:26:35,609 complementary and alternative medicine 541 00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,179 and then reached its final form of 542 00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:40,799 Integrative Medicine the language war 543 00:26:47,389 --> 00:26:44,609 was lost that's how quackery became main 544 00:26:49,549 --> 00:26:47,399 stream in quote quote the australian 545 00:26:52,190 --> 00:26:49,559 federal government has no legitimate 546 00:26:54,049 --> 00:26:52,200 basis to continue funding health fraud 547 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:54,059 and quackery in quote said professor 548 00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:56,369 mclennan today quote just as the 549 00:27:00,499 --> 00:26:58,200 government is appropriately suggesting 550 00:27:02,299 --> 00:27:00,509 removing medicare benefits for unproven 551 00:27:04,639 --> 00:27:02,309 or low value medical and surgical 552 00:27:07,690 --> 00:27:04,649 procedures there are no grounds for 553 00:27:10,639 --> 00:27:07,700 continuing to subsidize a vast array of 554 00:27:12,979 --> 00:27:10,649 unproven therapies directly or 555 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:12,989 indirectly through private insurance 556 00:27:17,869 --> 00:27:15,450 rebates unquote when that media release 557 00:27:23,230 --> 00:27:17,879 comes to us from the Friends of science 558 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:23,240 in medicine at ww science in medicine 559 00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:43,370 org not a you Sydneysiders on the 9th of 560 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:45,950 April we have the Australian skeptics 561 00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:48,890 dinner meeting and this time the topic 562 00:27:55,540 --> 00:27:52,160 is evolution now he might have thought 563 00:27:57,970 --> 00:27:55,550 creationism was dead done and dusted but 564 00:28:00,669 --> 00:27:57,980 far from it we're kicking off our new 565 00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:00,679 year of Sydney skeptics dinner meetings 566 00:28:05,549 --> 00:28:02,720 with a bit of an eye-opener the 567 00:28:08,049 --> 00:28:05,559 evolution of the anti-evolution movement 568 00:28:10,540 --> 00:28:08,059 professor Graham up being head of the 569 00:28:12,010 --> 00:28:10,550 school of philosophical historical and 570 00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:12,020 International Studies at Monash 571 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:15,350 University says that since the year 2000 572 00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:17,090 the teaching of creationism in the 573 00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:19,190 science classes has become more 574 00:28:24,010 --> 00:28:21,679 prevalent groups like the Christian 575 00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,020 Science Foundation Answers in Genesis 576 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:26,000 creation ministries and creation 577 00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:28,370 research work hard to get their 578 00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:30,710 materials into schools and this includes 579 00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:33,860 giving creationist showbags to students 580 00:28:37,330 --> 00:28:35,929 in New South Wales who better than to 581 00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:37,340 speak on this topic when someone 582 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:40,640 involved in the famous us kitzmiller vs. 583 00:28:46,049 --> 00:28:43,970 Dover trial in the year 2005 over a 584 00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:46,059 policy that required the teaching of 585 00:28:52,570 --> 00:28:49,760 intelligent design in biology classes so 586 00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:52,580 dr. Nick matzke will be there and he's a 587 00:28:57,100 --> 00:28:54,260 postdoc torial scientist at the 588 00:28:59,710 --> 00:28:57,110 Australian National University holding a 589 00:29:01,780 --> 00:28:59,720 discovery early career research award 590 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:01,790 from the australian research council 591 00:29:08,370 --> 00:29:06,530 from 2004 to 2007 nicked worked for the 592 00:29:11,169 --> 00:29:08,380 US National Center for Science Education 593 00:29:13,270 --> 00:29:11,179 which combats attempt to insert 594 00:29:15,970 --> 00:29:13,280 creationism and anti other science 595 00:29:18,490 --> 00:29:15,980 topics into the public schools so that's 596 00:29:21,310 --> 00:29:18,500 the Sydney skeptics and in a meeting the 597 00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:21,320 ninth of April at the ride Eastwood 598 00:29:26,740 --> 00:29:23,840 Leagues Club kicking off at six thirty 599 00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:26,750 and you can get your tickets at ww 600 00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:29,990 skeptics calm day you and we'll see you 601 00:29:51,470 --> 00:29:48,270 here's my not spooky action at the 602 00:29:55,410 --> 00:29:53,850 once again a group of shadowy people 603 00:29:56,820 --> 00:29:55,420 from a shadowy background and perhaps 604 00:29:58,830 --> 00:29:56,830 members of the shadow government meet 605 00:30:00,600 --> 00:29:58,840 underground in camperdown in a place 606 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:00,610 that it has alcohol upstairs alcohol 607 00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:03,250 downstairs and alcohol inside us where 608 00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:05,800 were the man who has a unique podcast 609 00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:06,760 because you are listening to a podcast 610 00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,160 and maybe you'd like to listen to his 611 00:30:13,260 --> 00:30:11,440 podcast who we got here could I um 612 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:13,270 Ronnie Todd from the podcasts pokey 613 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:15,250 pokies spoki blogging so you'd have a 614 00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:18,730 male agenda about that wouldn't you have 615 00:30:22,410 --> 00:30:19,990 a bit of a bit of white male privilege 616 00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:22,420 going on there see that was one of the 617 00:30:27,810 --> 00:30:25,630 approved names of our podcasts 618 00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:27,820 originally were going to it was um I 619 00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:30,430 wanted to psychedelics but I that that 620 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:31,780 didn't like that but then there's also 621 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:35,130 someone suggested how about pedophiles 622 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:38,410 and I think smoky bloke is is better 623 00:30:42,060 --> 00:30:40,210 than that so if but we're probably the 624 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:42,070 least sploagie blokey blokes you 625 00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:43,930 probably know now you just get around 626 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:45,580 choosing it off on a bike with the two 627 00:30:50,010 --> 00:30:47,770 you're talking to locals in Sydney or 628 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:50,020 Melbourne suburbs yeah we right around 629 00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:51,490 sometimes we just talk to each other and 630 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:53,320 Wuffa Laden about the suburb or we talk 631 00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:55,450 about some story that happened or we 632 00:30:59,940 --> 00:30:58,240 reenact a scene that didn't happen and 633 00:31:01,890 --> 00:30:59,950 all we sometimes we argue about 634 00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:01,900 something now I heard you record about 635 00:31:05,070 --> 00:31:03,310 an hour's worth of stuff and it comes 636 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:05,080 back to 15 minutes so that's pretty good 637 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:06,310 you could be chucking away a lot of 638 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:07,930 rubbish and it's cool yes a lot of 639 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:09,490 rabbit and a lot of puffing and while 640 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:11,530 we're riding uphill was very steep hills 641 00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:13,690 do you actually drink alcohol while you 642 00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:15,670 ride actually I didn't try and one of 643 00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:17,260 the up and coming episodes to drink up 644 00:31:22,110 --> 00:31:19,320 in a while while I was writing but at 645 00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:22,120 I'll give it away at cockatoo island but 646 00:31:25,230 --> 00:31:23,830 um it was only a really small but you 647 00:31:27,090 --> 00:31:25,240 could drink it so I couldn't really do 648 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:27,100 that right around there let's the hell 649 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:29,170 onto the pole but also be pretty boring 650 00:31:33,690 --> 00:31:31,690 so the cycling podcast it's a comedy or 651 00:31:35,970 --> 00:31:33,700 a comedy cycling podcast but how would 652 00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:35,980 you describe it it's just two guys 653 00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:39,310 riding bikes talking think that would 654 00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:40,660 probably don't even know that I didn't 655 00:31:43,290 --> 00:31:41,980 even know the name of my bike so is 656 00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:43,300 probably not really much of a cycling 657 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:46,960 podcast and where will we find it on the 658 00:31:55,170 --> 00:31:51,370 internet when you are now on just did we 659 00:31:58,350 --> 00:31:55,180 go to websites pokéblock is calm and on 660 00:31:59,040 --> 00:31:58,360 iTunes and stitcher it's pokeblock ease 661 00:32:00,960 --> 00:31:59,050 and of course if they've got something 662 00:32:02,970 --> 00:32:00,970 to say to you can they contact you 663 00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:02,980 through facebook page yeah Facebook 664 00:32:06,170 --> 00:32:03,750 Twitter 665 00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,180 on our website or email spokeo blow keys 666 00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:08,640 at gmail com yeah and of course if you 667 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:10,710 actually if you can't actually get 668 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:12,570 yourself a new an mp3 player for some 669 00:32:17,930 --> 00:32:16,290 reason how how can people see you live 670 00:32:20,420 --> 00:32:17,940 because you're about to break yourself 671 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:20,430 across the left wing capital of 672 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:22,650 Melbourne yes we're going to play we're 673 00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:24,120 playing we're playing at their Melbourne 674 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:25,830 International Comedy Festival will be at 675 00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:28,250 the Melbourne trades hall and Carlton 676 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:31,110 gambler some live shows around early 677 00:32:34,390 --> 00:32:32,910 april to mid april right sort of the 678 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:34,400 feud communists coming to see the show 679 00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:38,490 yes so i'll say goodnight or me and of 680 00:32:41,540 --> 00:32:40,140 course the the person who runs the whole 681 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:41,550 thing is Siobhan and you've heard her on 682 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:44,090 the show before with thinking animals 683 00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,650 thank you may know yes knowing animals 684 00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:48,960 I'm sorry well but they do think I think 685 00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:51,360 they do think so it's our job to know 686 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:53,910 that they think hmmm ok and what you 687 00:32:57,980 --> 00:32:55,410 were to go coming up on your podcast oh 688 00:33:00,320 --> 00:32:57,990 I've got a couple of great episodes the 689 00:33:03,170 --> 00:33:00,330 one that came up last week was about 690 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:03,180 vegan sexuality so the big question is 691 00:33:08,540 --> 00:33:05,970 is it okay for vegans to have sex with 692 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:08,550 meat eaters is it a whole sense thing 693 00:33:13,580 --> 00:33:11,490 because you can smell the results well 694 00:33:16,460 --> 00:33:13,590 it's very controversial it's interesting 695 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:16,470 Ingrid Newkirk from Peter says that it's 696 00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:19,710 the duty of every female vegan to have 697 00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:22,230 sex with a meat eater convert him to 698 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:24,240 veganism and then move on to the next 699 00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:28,770 partner so so like a meat succubus kind 700 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:32,070 of lab so that's good that's coming up 701 00:33:35,780 --> 00:33:33,570 in the show and I thought you didn't 702 00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:35,790 know anything controversial yes that's 703 00:33:41,420 --> 00:33:38,190 one of our most exciting episodes but 704 00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,430 we're also speaking to Jessica from the 705 00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:43,440 cruelty-free shop tomorrow I'm going to 706 00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,350 interview bitter Jones who is from RSPCA 707 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:48,240 Australia she's just written a book 708 00:33:53,050 --> 00:33:50,610 about the live animal export trade so 709 00:33:55,850 --> 00:33:53,060 it's all about animals it's all about 710 00:33:58,730 --> 00:33:55,860 the vegan community and about activism 711 00:34:01,460 --> 00:33:58,740 but it's a very diverse podcast and it's 712 00:34:03,410 --> 00:34:01,470 evidence-based most of the time so half 713 00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:03,420 of the people we speak to our academics 714 00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:04,470 and they're speaking about their 715 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:06,060 published work that's generally 716 00:34:10,610 --> 00:34:08,250 peer-reviewed and half the time we speak 717 00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:10,620 about we speak to activist so you tell 718 00:34:14,899 --> 00:34:13,020 me is it evidence based or not I'll have 719 00:34:15,810 --> 00:34:14,909 listening I'll let you know what's the 720 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:15,820 web address 721 00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:18,100 so you can listen to knowing animals via 722 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:21,340 lipson you can also go to iTunes and on 723 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:24,130 Twitter where at knowing underscore 724 00:34:27,930 --> 00:34:26,350 animals and knowing animals at Facebook 725 00:34:29,970 --> 00:34:27,940 oh and because the next meetup for 726 00:34:31,590 --> 00:34:29,980 Sydney podcasters if you think you would 727 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:31,600 like to start a podcast if you've got an 728 00:34:35,010 --> 00:34:33,490 interesting in podcasting if you just 729 00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:35,020 like to know how to get into it or even 730 00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:37,150 just a passing interest in podcasting 731 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:39,550 come along when's our next MTG podcast 732 00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:42,370 is one and all join us at podcasting 733 00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,110 Sydney we meet regularly at the 734 00:34:49,470 --> 00:34:46,720 Chippendale hotel you can find all the 735 00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:49,480 information at podcasting Sydney it's a 736 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:53,110 meetup group our next podcast meetup is 737 00:34:59,310 --> 00:34:56,010 going to be one in which we speak to 738 00:35:01,410 --> 00:34:59,320 Lindsey from friends or wrong otherwise 739 00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:01,420 known as the doctor and then soon after 740 00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:03,280 that we're going to tour a podcasting 741 00:35:09,870 --> 00:35:06,900 studio at UTS so plenty coming up go to 742 00:35:11,130 --> 00:35:09,880 podcasting sydney at meet up i'm going 743 00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:11,140 to arrange a podcast here in the room 744 00:35:15,930 --> 00:35:13,270 from psychology through two lots of 745 00:35:18,830 --> 00:35:15,940 comedy to science of course and end the 746 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:18,840 cyclists you know come along and join us 747 00:35:24,510 --> 00:35:22,330 yes join us one and all and not only are 748 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:24,520 we talking podcasts we're also recording 749 00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:26,410 a podcast right now so thank you very 750 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:28,270 much may nod and thank you very much to 751 00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:50,020 on Maynard condo you hey you 752 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:55,190 time to start bunga bunga 25 it's bunga 753 00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:00,720 with Tim alert as an air mane are that's 754 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:03,599 right Lena 755 00:36:08,059 --> 00:36:05,970 hey Louis Theroux is coming to tour 756 00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:08,069 Louie thorough is coming to to it you a 757 00:36:11,359 --> 00:36:09,630 bit of a fan of Louie I have a couple of 758 00:36:13,940 --> 00:36:11,369 close friends who don't drink tea or 759 00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:13,950 coffee and I have to say I find it a bit 760 00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:18,710 weird everybody loves Louie so I don't 761 00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:21,960 all he does is he hangs around and ask 762 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:25,440 questions like a sociopath if she calls 763 00:36:30,589 --> 00:36:27,930 you don't call straight back no matter 764 00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:30,599 what he hears or sees he always looks 765 00:36:36,579 --> 00:36:33,119 vaguely shocked everybody says he's cool 766 00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:36,589 my rule of thumb usually is if people go 767 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:40,529 on triple j I go today I'm banga banga 768 00:36:48,259 --> 00:36:44,970 we will have tims musical quest crank 769 00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:48,269 mail crank mail and a very intense 770 00:36:55,029 --> 00:36:52,680 burning social issue also Tim tells you 771 00:36:58,460 --> 00:36:55,039 where to get off when it comes to music 772 00:37:01,219 --> 00:36:58,470 if i'll tell you stand by you won't like 773 00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:01,229 it coming up look up amon artarama in 774 00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:03,630 newcastle on the saturday these second 775 00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:05,460 of april where we showcasing the work of 776 00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:11,880 so if you got some roller skates it 777 00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:13,390 could be a bit of a Xanadu night for you 778 00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:15,910 there Tim that is fantastic you go to me 779 00:37:20,850 --> 00:37:18,310 go make sure you dress properly why not 780 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:20,860 push things further than they should go 781 00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:23,050 so that the second of april come along 782 00:37:28,410 --> 00:37:25,390 to the amazing royal exchange and we'll 783 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:28,420 have some fun there Tim Ferguson who do 784 00:37:33,630 --> 00:37:32,050 you think was Jack the Ripper the person 785 00:37:36,990 --> 00:37:33,640 who was Jack the Ripper is the person 786 00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:37,000 who would always get away with it the 787 00:37:42,070 --> 00:37:39,700 last person you would think Benedict 788 00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:42,080 Cumberbatch 789 00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:44,270 perhaps not that I've nailed him 790 00:37:54,450 --> 00:37:47,420 Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock he is Jack 791 00:38:00,370 --> 00:37:57,820 because nobody suspects the guy who's 792 00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:00,380 dressed like Boy George was in the 80s 793 00:38:04,570 --> 00:38:02,750 nobody ever stops and says what else is 794 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:04,580 he up to because it seems like he's 795 00:38:08,860 --> 00:38:06,770 already up to everything i count about 796 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:08,870 that it had to be Benedict Cumberbatch 797 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:11,930 if you have Benedict's meditech the 798 00:38:16,249 --> 00:38:30,799 Bongo Bonga on may not condone are you 799 00:38:34,589 --> 00:38:32,939 thank you for listening to the skeptic 800 00:38:36,089 --> 00:38:34,599 zone and maybe now you understand why 801 00:38:37,229 --> 00:38:36,099 the skeptic zone over the last few 802 00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:37,239 months has been a little up and down 803 00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:39,880 well hopefully the quality is still been 804 00:38:45,449 --> 00:38:42,640 there but a lot of my time was taken up 805 00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:45,459 by caring for my mother which was a good 806 00:38:49,650 --> 00:38:47,920 thing to do next week on the show I hope 807 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:49,660 to be speaking to one of the organizers 808 00:38:57,269 --> 00:38:53,650 of para con Australia taking place in 809 00:38:59,719 --> 00:38:57,279 May May the 26 to the 29th and consumer 810 00:39:03,239 --> 00:38:59,729 in the blue mountains near Sydney a 811 00:39:05,699 --> 00:39:03,249 paranormal convention oh yes oh yes with 812 00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:05,709 ghost hunters and psychics and all sorts 813 00:39:08,999 --> 00:39:07,359 of things and the reason i'll be 814 00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:09,009 speaking to one of the organisers is 815 00:39:15,870 --> 00:39:12,430 because i'm an invited speaker hmm 816 00:39:17,339 --> 00:39:15,880 that's going to be interesting that's 817 00:39:19,650 --> 00:39:17,349 good i'm going to be talking about the 818 00:39:22,319 --> 00:39:19,660 various challenges around the world for 819 00:39:25,049 --> 00:39:22,329 large cash prizes if people can do their 820 00:39:27,689 --> 00:39:25,059 psychic claim yeah i'm going to be 821 00:39:32,609 --> 00:39:27,699 speaking to a room full of believers in 822 00:39:34,709 --> 00:39:32,619 the paranormal oh boy i don't know 823 00:39:37,049 --> 00:39:34,719 what's going to happen but anyway we'll 824 00:39:40,439 --> 00:39:37,059 find out more about the perricone 825 00:39:42,660 --> 00:39:40,449 australia on next week's show but for 826 00:39:47,669 --> 00:39:42,670 this week this is Richard Saunders with 827 00:39:50,339 --> 00:39:47,679 fond memories of my mum and gratitude 828 00:39:56,999 --> 00:39:50,349 for everything she did signing off from 829 00:39:59,519 --> 00:39:57,009 Sydney Australia you've been listening 830 00:40:03,029 --> 00:39:59,529 to the sceptics own podcast visit our 831 00:40:05,279 --> 00:40:03,039 website at wwc aiptek zoomtv for 832 00:40:09,689 --> 00:40:05,289 contacts and archive of all episodes 833 00:40:11,819 --> 00:40:09,699 since 2008 and our online store please 834 00:40:15,150 --> 00:40:11,829 support the skeptic zone by following us 835 00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:15,160 on twitter at skeptic zone liking us on 836 00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:18,150 facebook and leaving a review on iTunes 837 00:40:23,189 --> 00:40:20,529 you can also show your support by 838 00:40:26,910 --> 00:40:23,199 subscribing via paypal for as little as 839 00:40:28,979 --> 00:40:26,920 99 cents a week the skeptic zone is an 840 00:40:31,049 --> 00:40:28,989 independent production the views and 841 00:40:33,269 --> 00:40:31,059 opinions expressed on the skeptic zone 842 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:33,279 and not necessarily those of Australian